There’s a good quote out there by Eleanor Roosevelt and it goes like this: “Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.” It’s important to think about how we converse. Self-awareness in conversation allows us to reach a level of discussion that elevates us above the mundane—the weather, the markets, the news—and allows us to contemplate the sublime. Conversation, though lowly in comparison to music or the written word, is an art form. If we focus on driving insightful, sincere dialogue we are able to enhance our perspective and strengthen our relationships.

In keeping with the concept of self-awareness and sincerity in conversation, I’d like to present what I call the “Three Stages of Conversation.” These stages are the “I stage,” the “You stage,” and the “We stage.” The “I stage” of conversation is the most common. In this stage, our focus remains on ourselves, regardless of whether we are talking or listening. We see every bit of the conversation only as it relates directly to our own lives. We relish the opportunity to discuss our experiences and our desires, and we seek constantly to drive the conversation where we want it to go. Whether we are trying to impress our counterparts with intelligent insights and marvelous experiences, or we just enjoy hearing ourselves speak, we cannot wait to interject and inject our thoughts. We have all spent a significant amount of time on this stage of conversation, and many of us have never left it. As long as we remain on this stage, we are unable to grow and to learn from others. We don’t really listen as others speak, but rather wait for a pause so that we can talk. Next time you are in a conversation, take note of your thoughts while the other person speaks. Are you actually listening to the things they are saying and allowing them to resonate, or are you merely hearing the words and planning out what you will say next? I’m often surprised at how regularly I find myself doing the latter. That is the problem with the “I stage.” It fuels the ego and does not allow us to expand ourselves and empathize with others. If we can’t learn to listen, how will we grow and become more open? Below is an example of an “I stage” conversation:

He: I just got back from Key West.
She: Oh, I’ve always wanted to go there. Did I ever tell you about my uncle who owns a house in Palm Beach? Now that is a nice place.
He: Eh, I don’t really like Palm Beach. Too gaudy for my taste.
She: Well, if you ever go, you absolutely have to have dinner at the Brasserie. The wine is incredible and you can’t beat the sunset views!
He: I guess I do love a nice glass of red wine, and sunsets are tough to beat. Although, I will say, sunrises are more moving. Have you ever seen a good one?
She: I’m more of a sunset person. I hate waking up early!
He: Ah ok, but let me tell you about this sunrise I saw down in Key West…

If we overheard this conversation, we wouldn’t think much of it; it’s fairly standard. But in the context of the “I stage” of conversation, it is easy to point out its selfish nature. Neither person has any interest in what the other person has to say, and each is pulling the conversation in a different direction with every remark. Neither He nor She will grow from this conversation, and they will not learn much about each other, save for some hogwash about the different places they’ve been. By comparison, here is a slightly altered version of the same conversation:

He: I just got back from Key West.
She: Oh, I’ve always wanted to go there. What did you think?
He: It was nice. I liked the grungy vibe, especially after the offensive gaudiness of Palm Beach, which is where I went last year.
She: Offensive gaudiness? What do you mean by that? I know people who love Palm Beach.
He: I just don’t understand why people feel the need to live in such excess. They awake in the morning, have their breakfasts prepared for them, dine by their private poolsides, then drive their rare luxury cars to their gated golf clubs and play nine holes while smoking Cuban cigars. It all seems so… detached.
She: Hmm that’s an interesting perspective. I have an uncle who likes it there because it’s quiet and everyone keeps to themselves. He also is seventy years old and likes nice things. Do you think you ever could become more interested in that lifestyle as you age and accumulate wealth?
He: No, never. Those people are poisoning the Earth with their excess…

It may be obvious that this is an example of the “You stage” of conversation. At this stage, She is engaging and is keen to learn from Him. She finds his opinion interesting and asks probing questions. The questions are honest and come naturally because She generally wants to hear what He has to say. While He is speaking, She is not thinking about how it relates to Her life or how She can guide the discussion to talk about Her interests. She is clear-minded and focused on Him as He speaks. When He completes a thought, She contemplates what He has said and tries to make Him dive deeper so that they can both grow through exploring the notion that Palm Beach is gaudy. In this way, the conversation allows them to learn more about each other and about themselves. I call Her style of conversation the “Let’s unpack that” method. When somebody makes a statement, or opines on something, you say to yourself, “Let’s unpack that,” and try to get the person to reduce that statement or opinion to its most basic form. What does He mean when He says that Palm Beach is gaudy? Certainly there is some very interesting sentiment buried in there somewhere, and She aims to unearth it.

Now, it may not be totally clear, but the issue with the above conversation is that He has remained in the “I stage.” She asks questions, and He is happy to answer them and keep the conversation in His realm; this is what He wants to talk about and He is more than happy to stay there. Fortunately, because She has elevated the conversation to the “You stage,” they both will grow: He by unpacking His own thoughts, and She by listening and learning from Him. However, since He has remained in the “I stage,” the conversation is limited. In order to reduce these limitations, they must both enter the “We stage” of conversation. Here is an example of what that might look like:

He: I just got back from Key West.
She: Oh, I’ve always wanted to go there. What did you think?
He: It was nice. I liked the grungy vibe, especially after the offensive gaudiness of Palm Beach, which is where I went last year.
She: Offensive gaudiness? What do you mean by that? I know people who love Palm Beach.
He: I just don’t understand why people feel the need to live in such excess. It all seems incredibly detached. Who do you know who loves it? And why do they love it?
She: Well, I do see the extreme privacy and luxury, but I have an uncle there who likes it specifically for the quiet and because everyone keeps to themselves. He also is seventy years old and likes nice things. Do you not think you could ever enjoy that lifestyle?
He: Okay, that’s fair. I guess I am pretty young and I have no idea what my interests will be in forty years. But don’t you think they could tone down the luxury? It just feels wasteful and sterile.
She: Oh, I agree with that…

This is gearing up to be a great conversation. Too often we enter a conversation with an agenda and we relish the opportunity to display our knowledge on the topic at hand. But this is not how a simpleton behaves. If we’ve been there, done that, or studied it, we keep this information to ourselves—unless it will help the conversation to grow in an organic way. Growth and understanding (or laugher) should be the ultimate goals of any good conversation. And we limit this when we feel the need to mention our grand ski trip to Vail just because a friend states that he enjoys the wintertime.

A couple of additional points: Firstly, I am not saying that every single conversation we have in life should have a philosophical, intensely probing nature; there is a time and a place for everything, including basic chat about the weather. Secondly, in addition to the way we speak, we must also focus on how we hold ourselves physically; we must face our counterparts directly and focus on them; the moment we look away or show disinterest, that message is received and our partner starts to close off and look for a way to end the conversation. Lastly, do not be afraid to inject a bit of foolishness here and there. If somebody makes a reference that I do not understand, I shrug my shoulders, smile, and ask them to explain. If I pretend that I know what they’re talking about, I am allowing my pride to stand between us, and the conversation comes to a halt. When I think of how I often I’ve missed learning opportunities just because I am afraid to show my lack of knowledge, I want to kick myself.

Ultimately, people age and accumulate experience, knowledge, and social standing. We grow in confidence because of these things and we look to project them in every conversation. But I’d like to contend that if we allow ourselves to slough these attributes and approach each conversation as a child would—wide-eyed and questioning—we will grow tenfold with each passing day, and we will push each other to be a little more thoughtful, a little more empathetic, and a little more open.

Yep,
The Sauntering Simpleton